week 10: the story of Havelok

Number of replies: 11

forum: I'd like to ask you to compare the versions and see how the narrative is reorganized in the historical and the romance context respectively; where the emphasis is placed, how the sujet changes.

session: we will talk further about the uses of romance narrative / motivic patterns in historical writing.

In reply to First post

Re: week 10: the story of Havelok

by Rose Delaplace -
After my reading, I noticed some differences in the construction of the story. However, I must say that I am a little bit confused between the versions, so I hope that I won’t make mistakes.
For me, Gaimar's L'estoire des Engleis (modern English translation), is more focused on a women perspective. Quickly, the story settles around Argentille. She is the first to notice that the mouth of her husband is burning. At least in the beginning of the story, she seems to be a character as important as Cuaran. I also notice that Cuaran’s personality is more clearly introduced, and directly at the beginning of the story. It also struck me that the narrator emphasizes the fact that he is stupid. Even if he seems kind, he is absolutely not able to give a noble meaning to his dream. He also does not know how to act (“Argentille was in great perplexity about why he lay facedown”), and seems a bit wild as he is used to ties up his friends. The narrator seems almost sorry that Argentille is the wife of someone stupid “whatever he said, all of it was wrong!”, with a lot of exclamations.
The story of Havelok (the middle English romance) version seems quite different. Firstly, the names of the characters are not the same. Secondly, the events are not really told in the same order, from the same point of vue, or with the same intensity. I would say that the religious aspect is more present. Quite often, and already at the beginning, Christ is mentioned, which sentences such as “Let us praise the Lord!”. For me, this version is also more masculine and maybe more focused on “noble/knightly topics”, such as kingdom, heir… It is more a story of kings. The scenes are not really told from Goldeburu’s point of vue.
About the question of the form of the story, we can also notice the fact that in Gaimar's L'estoire des Engleis, the story starts directly. However, in the middle English romance, there is this kind of introduction/conclusion which allows the narrator to talk to the readers. It presents the story that we will hear, so it makes the reader want to read it, and by the way, it prays to God.
In reply to First post

Re: week 10: the story of Havelok

by Alice Balažíková -
I think that Gaimar’s version treats Havelok’s journey more as a part of a historical tale about kingship and places more emphasis on themes such as political power or betrayal. It portrays events as being shaped by fate and outside forces rather than the hero’s own personal decisions. On the other hand, the Middle English version seems to focus on Havelok’s personal growth, virtue, and love for Goldeboru. I would also say that the supernatural elements are also more central in this version and help to prove and justify Havelok’s royal destiny. Overall, Gaimar’s version seems more concerned with history and duty, whereas the romance with its emphasis on personal triumph and the power of love.
In reply to Alice Balažíková

Re: week 10: the story of Havelok

by Helena Znojemská -
An aggregate reply - it is curious how you differ in some of your perceptions and agree in others: For Rose, Gaimar's version, though embedded in a historical narrative, seems - from what I can gather - less concerned with the larger political dimension (="a story of kings…"?) than the free-standing text identified as romance, whereas for Alice it works the other way round.
At the same time, you note the different handling of the "hero position" - Rose mentions the scope and agency given to Argentille and her point of view, Alice notes the focus on Havelok and his inner life.
So, we have a point to discuss - how do the two aspects work together (story of kingdom / story of person) in the two texts? And we could also include the Anglo-Norman Lai d'Haveloc, given in summary, in the comparison.
In reply to Helena Znojemská

Re: week 10: the story of Havelok

by Emma Marešová -
I would say Gaimar’s version is more of a story of kingdom rather than a story of Havelok as a person specifically, while the ME Romance version spends more time on Hevelok specifically. Though he’s quite a passive figure in both, I think the ME Romance version frames it in a way that makes Havelok look more heroic, while Gaimar’s version is more honest about outside influences on what Havelok does. The ME Romance version reads like a fairytale, and is much more dramatised. In contrast, the Lai d’Haveloc reads much more like a report of chronological events; it is very direct (written in the format of ‘this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened’). It is more focused on facts (like a historical account); once again more of a story of kingdom rather than person.
In reply to Emma Marešová

Re: week 10: the story of Havelok

by Vendula Hojková -
I definitely agree with Emma, Gaimar seems to me in a way more factual, while the ME romance is very much concerned more on the heroism and seems very black and white and dramatic.
What i also find as an interesting difference is, that in the Gaimar's version Havelok doesn't know anything about his origins, while in the ME Romance he knows his lineage and there is also more information about his childhood, which seems to slightly mirror Goldeboru's.
In reply to Vendula Hojková

Re: week 10: the story of Havelok

by Jana Fialová -
I would add one thing to those two reports. I find that the ME version in general is a lot more violent and particular with how people die and are killed. As was already mentioned, the Gaimar version is a lot more plainly factual, while the ME version is more personal a paints different characters in more detail concerning their backstory. The ME version describes in a lot more depth in terms of the horrors that each of the characters has seen and experienced. Havelok's skills in combat are very prominent in the ME version and I wonder if that would tie with the sense of agency that other people have mentioned before here.
In reply to Vendula Hojková

Re: week 10: the story of Havelok

by Helena Znojemská -
Could we perhaps say that there is more perceptible patterning in the ME account? At the same tie, it doesn't seem the ME Havelok would be that much more heroic - it is definitely more personal, but Havelok doesn't seem to have that much more agency. Or let's say that his agency suddenly soars once he's prompted by Goldeboru.
In reply to First post

Re: week 10: the story of Havelok

by Lukáš Lichoň -
I would agree with Alice that the Gaimar version seems to have a stronger focus on a more historical narrative and political elements, such as the union between English and Danish as well as a more of a dynastic focus. There seems to be less emphasis on Havelok as an individual and more on a broader context in which his "journey" takes place. In contrast, the Middle English Romance version seems to place more emphasis on Havelok's hardships and his overcoming of those hardships, together with other characters, such as Godard, being described in more detail. The tone of the Gaimar version, at least to me, seems more expository than the Middle English Romance, which seems more entertaining.
In reply to Lukáš Lichoň

Re: week 10: the story of Havelok

by Helena Znojemská -
I'd agree that Gaimar's version gives us a sense of political context beyond the 2 kingdoms - the way they fit in broader political landscape.
In reply to First post

Re: week 10: the story of Havelok

by Nerys Blandová -
I agree with the others. What really struck me is the focus on Havelok’s heroism in the ME text. His heroism does not depend entirely on his physical prowess but also on his morality and his unwavering loyalty to Goldboru. Gaimar’s Havelok is quite passive and just kind of boring. His actions are merely reactions to external forces. It is very factual and Havelok seems to lack identity. In the ME version I found myself more emotionally invested in Havelok’s story, mainly because of the moral dimensions of his character. It was easier to root for him.
In reply to Nerys Blandová

Re: week 10: the story of Havelok

by Helena Znojemská -
So is there anything of romance in Gaimar, or not? You are definitely right that there is much greater emphasis on Havelok's experience, and that our emotional participation as readers is solicited very consistently by the narrator.