week 6: Apollonius of Tyre

Number of replies: 13

I'd like to ask you to have a look at the Latin version of the story alongside the Old English one, if only to supply the part of the plot that hasn't been preserved in the latter.

forum: Can you see any points of contact in terms of thematic concerns, plot patterns etc. between Apollonius and the texts we have read so far? Is there a way they could be read as a similar type of a story, not to say genre? Pick just one aspect for commentary in the forum.

session: We will compare our findings in the above matters and continue with noting the major differences.
              Overall, the Old English version is an almost literal translation of the Latin - unlike the versions by Gower or Shakespeare.
Yet, it does depart from its source in a handful of significant instances.
              In preparation for a comparative inquiry into what happens with the story in the changing cultural environment, I'd like to ask you to mentally note these down and try to think what could have motivated the changes.

In reply to First post

Re: week 6: Apollonius of Tyre

by Emma Mitéran -

When considering possible points of contact between Ywaine and Gawain, Parsifal and Apollonius of Tyre, the first one that come to mind for me is the theme of love and an adventurous journey (especially when it comes to Ywaine and Apollonius). In both Ywaine and Gawain and Apollonius of Tyre, the hero has to undergo a series of different adventures, misfortunes and accomplishment to reunite with their beloved. The circumstances of the separation between the lovers might be different, however both stories end with a happy ending (reunion) due to the heros’s perseverance and bravery. Although this same pattern is somewhat lacking in Parsifal, the themes of love and journey are nevertheless present. 

In reply to Emma Mitéran

Re: week 6: Apollonius of Tyre

by Rose Delaplace -
In this extract, various elements may remind us of the previous texts. In simple terms, I would say that the plot is set against a backdrop of kings, noble ladies and quests. The hero, like Arthur's knights, deliberately sets out in search of adventure. Along the way, he encounters many obstacles. Like Yvain, he loses everything, only to find himself naked in the wilderness. He must then face a series of trials before regaining his identity. However, this is not the consequence of a fault. We can also find the idea of not forgetting someone: the fisherman asks Apollonius not to forget his help, but this time, unlike Yvain with Laudine, he honors his promise. It's also possible to spot scenes of “recognition”, as the one of Gawain and Ywain fighting a duel. Indeed, in the scene where Tarsia entertains her father, neither is aware of their identity. There is no violent love/hate relationship as in Yvain, but it is interesting to note that Apollonius needs his entertainment to forget his daughter's death, while Tarsia, in despair, laments her fate. But the solution lies in their chance meeting. Finally, I would like to mention some of the fantastic elements present, as in the two texts we studied. Indeed, we had noticed the presence of unexplained and inexplicable factors, like the magic fountain in Yvain, which helps to advance the plot. King Antiochus suddenly dies by the hand of God, allowing Apollonius to return to his homeland. An angel suggests that the hero return to Ephesus, where he will find his wife. These elements are not at all considered abnormal in the story.
So here are some common points between the texts, but differences could also be seen.
In reply to Rose Delaplace

Re: week 6: Apollonius of Tyre

by Jana Fialová -
One thing that I found interesting was the fact that Appolonius is not particularly interested in actually saving the first princess despite knowing what was going on in the kingdom. He leaves and lets the king continue with his evil deeds, finding love and family elsewhere. He is also not serving a king or a champion of God as it was in the previous poems (it makes sense since he is the one with the highest status, but it was the case in the previous poems). But I agree with the previous points that were made. The story still follows a hero dealing with various hardships, that still wins over a princess through his chivalrous behavior and overall capability.
In reply to Jana Fialová

Re: week 6: Apollonius of Tyre

by Helena Znojemská -
An aggregate reply to all three posts:
I think Rose came somewhat closer in her description, because what she mentioned was the "loss and restoration" trajectory, which is where we indeed can see a close resemblance with Ywain; as for "different adventures, misfortunes and accomplishment", they feature in the first of Apollonius' restorations (when he marries the princess at Pentapolis; there, as Jana put it, "The story still follows a hero dealing with various hardships, that still wins over a princess through his chivalrous behavior and overall capability"), but not so much in the second, where he remains remarkably passive as the focus shifts to Tharsia.
I also agree with the observation that there is a lot of "unexplained and inexplicable factors" in the story. Rose named some - the supernatural interventions, but I'm sure we can think of others on the more mundane level.
In reply to First post

Re: week 6: Apollonius of Tyre

by Alice Balažíková -
In each story we’ve read, the hero’s journey ultimately contributes to the restoration of social order. Apollonius’s trials end with the restoration of his family and status, suggesting a return to some kind of lawful or harmonious order. Similarly, Iwain and Gawain and Parsifal conclude with the protagonists fulfilling their roles in society or achieving reconciliation. And although each hero’s path to this restoration is unique, all three narratives emphasize the importance of personal virtue and loyalty. As has been mentioned, exile and reintegration are central motifs: each hero’s separation from society prompts his own personal transformation, and their eventual return reinforces social balance. These recurring motifs underscore the stories’ focus on upholding social order through the growth of an individual and the adherence to noble ideals.
In reply to Alice Balažíková

Re: week 6: Apollonius of Tyre

by Helena Znojemská -
The social dimension you mention is a very important feature in all three narratives - to an extent it gets the greatest amount of attention in Apollonius where the hero's return to his proper position results in restoration of cities, rewards for the virtuous and punishment for the wicked - naturally, as the hero is a king. In comparison, the restoration of harmony in the previous narratives was, despite the social dimension, more focused on the individual.
In reply to First post

Re: week 6: Apollonius of Tyre

by Nerys Blandová -
The themes of “Apollonius of Tyre” are undoubtedly reminiscent of those we’ve seen in Ywaine and Gawain, as well as in Parsifal. Throughout the stories, the heroes face trials and tribulations to get their well-deserved “happy ending.” Their chivalric values, strong will and unwavering determination and bravery are ultimately rewarded in the end in all stories. However, Apollonius’s story is unique in many ways. After Apollonius uncovers the king’s incestuous relationship with his daughter, he does not attempt to save the abused princess, escaping to protect himself. I’d say that this makes me think that his perseverance and bravery are more limited compared to the other stories. His actions are mostly self-serving, and his success comes from the kindness of strangers. In the end, though, he rewards those who have helped him and returns to his home country after the evil king dies. Apollonius then becomes the great ruler that the country desperately needed. I agree that the social aspect is very important. The conclusion that the hero returns from exile to significantly improve society is also something we have seen before.
Furthermore, I think that “Apollonius of Tyre” is unique in how clearly it presents what can be called the “human evil” in King Antiochus and the terribly evil act of incestous rape. Apollonius cannot defeat Antiochus; he can only be defeated by the power of Divine Intervention. There is a point to be made about the idea of the “real human evil” in “Apollonius of Tyre” compared to the more fantastical opponents we see in Ywaine and Gawain, for example.
In reply to Nerys Blandová

Re: week 6: Apollonius of Tyre

by Helena Znojemská -
Apollonius' not saving Antiochus' daughter indeed raises many questions. You've suggested two ways of looking at it - he doesn't do it because he isn't, ultimately, the kind of chivalric hero Ywaine is. Not that he is inferior, but because the values haven't yet developed that way; Apollonius isn't a chivalric romance and the protagonist really doesn't do the kind of stuff knights do - no adventures to prove himself, not much prowess in the sense we've seen in Y&G either. Or he doesn't do it because the story sees Antiochus' crime as beyond the pale of society and hence not to be righted by human intervention.
3rd possibility - the way the riddle is formulated suggests the daughter's complicity (Look to yourself - look to your daughter) and so there appears nobody for Apollonius to save.
In reply to First post

Re: week 6: Apollonius of Tyre

by Lukáš Lichoň -
In terms of similar themes and patterns within the story, I also noticed the common theme of adventure and romance. There is also a similarity in the values that Apollonius and previous protagonists seem to display, such as chivalry, nobility and courage, although these were more clearly demonstrated in the previous works. Certain elements that could be described as supernatural are also present, though again not to the same extent. I believe that they could indeed be read as a similar type of story, albeit with emphasis on different aspects, while keeping the core (adventurous journey and romance) largely intact.
In reply to Lukáš Lichoň

Re: week 6: Apollonius of Tyre

by Helena Znojemská -
I have just one slight reservation - the "adventurous journey". This is perhaps something we should debate in the session. Except for his first voyage in courtship of the princess of Antioch, Apollonius doesn't really follow any quest - or does he? Perhaps we differ on this issue, and I'd like to hear more.
In reply to First post

Re: week 6: Apollonius of Tyre

by Mathias James Ellis -

In Apollonius of Tyre, the strong sense of virtue can be compared (to some extent) to the texts we have already read for this course. However, in Ywain and Gawain aswell as in Perceval's story, the knights have to prove their goodness, their courage... to earn their sort of title of "virtue", to prove to others that they deserve to be treated as well as they have behaved. In Apollonius of Tyre, virtue is something that is innate to the character, he doesn't seek to earn it but it is in his nature to act well and fair, hence, the actions of heroes in these two types of stories can be compared but it seems like knights tend to wait something in return for their actions while Apollonius does the same actions because it is morally just.

In reply to Mathias James Ellis

Re: week 6: Apollonius of Tyre

by Helena Znojemská -
I suppose what you observe is the sense that in case of Y&G, Ywain has to make up for a mistake he has made; Perceval starts as more or less well intentioned character (French/English), but he has a long journey in becoming a good character. There are no errors or deficiencies in Apollonius; it's just misfortune. So there is little character development. Bud I'd probably stop at saying that the knights expect something in return. I expect individual views on this will differ, so we have another point to debate.
In reply to First post

Re: week 6: Apollonius of Tyre

by Fiachra Owens -
Similar to 'Yvain and Gawain' and 'Percival', 'Apollonius' contains similar themes of bravery, nobility, perseverance and adventure. In all stories, the protagonist must endure a journey that will result in personal and moral growth. Apollonius learns about love and justice, Percival learns about humility and Yvain learns about redemption and forgiveness. In the first two stories, the protagonist endures their journey as a trial to prove themselves heroes, showing they possess traits of great Arthurian heroes and prove their honour. In contrast, Apollonius possesses all these traits from the outset and instead is trying to reclaim his identity. His journey is like Odysseus trying to reunite with his love after a separation. Both journeys contain obstacles that the main characters must overcome. Apollonius navigates political intrigue and personal betrayal, while Percival and Yvain confront various knights and mythical creatures in their quests. Furthermore, in each story, there is an emphasis on romantic subplots, noble heritage, and a quest for identity.