week 5: Sir Perceval de Galles

Number of replies: 18

This is a specimen of a so-called tail-rhyme romance - the form Chaucer was parodying in "The Tale of Sir Thopaz" (which, by the way, makes reference to Perceval).

This time our focus will shift more towards the "idea of romance" - because, in what could be seen as a very special sense, Perceval has it all (and not quite): becoming a knight, spectacular adventures, giants, Saracens, magic rings...

suggestions for session discussion:
1) look at Perceval in comparison to Ywaine and Gawaine: what is missing, what is added...
2) our investigation of specifically English romance will continue with a brief comparison of the English text with Chrétien's romance. The synopsis should give you a general idea of the concerns and issues which Chrétien pursues and allow you to see what the English poem does with the story - in what direction it moves away from Chrétien.
3) finally, I'd like to ask you to look at the FORM of the English romance: note the style, the narratorial comments etc.

forum:
Please look at lines 69-728 or 834-1504 of Burton Raffel's translation (depending on your choice) and compare with corresponding passages from the English poem.
           Try to list your impressions concerning the way Perceval is characterized in the two versions and/or his character development, and what this may tell you about the core concerns of either text.
           In addition, I'd like to ask you to suggest one issue/motif/theme you'd like to discuss in the session as part of the comparative analysis.
          

In reply to First post

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Adéla Chvátalová -
I would say that the English and the French Perceval are very different. In the English version we can see that Perceval is using the spear to improve his hunting skills: “And when Perceval could walk she sent him to roam in the woods and put the spear in his hand.” [193-5] and it also says that: “with his new toy, and killed many wild creatures in the forest with it.” [206-8]. But the French version does not mention his hunting skills.
In the French version, Perceval wants to be a knight, but in the beginning, he behaves as someone who should not be trusted with weapons. He’s depicted as someone eager to be a knight, he keeps asking the knights he meets silly questions (“Were you born With this shirt?" [282-3]) but he is also absent-minded, misinterpreting the advice his mother gave him. When defeats the Red Knight and gets the weapons and the armour, he doesn’t know how to use them. In the English version, Perceval show more aggressive behaviour, threatening the king: “I will keep my promise; if he doesn’t make me a knight, I’ll kill him tomorrow.” [381-3]. When Arthur sees Perceval in the English version he only notes that: “If you were dressed well, you would be the spitting image of a knight I loved greatly while he was alive.” [545-8] but in the French version, they mocky Perceval for his naivety: “Foolish, completely untaught, He'll soon be wounded, or dead. You'll see, it won't take long!"” [1298-1300] Throughout the text, French Perceval lets other people help him. In the English version, Gawain also helps him to put on the armour but the aspect of help is not very prominent. The French version also stresses that without the armour and weapons, Perceval is only a boy: “And the other took off his armor. And there he stood, in the stupid Garments he'd had from his mother, Clodhopper boots and rawhide Coat, clumsily sewn.” [1421-1426]
Perhaps it would be interesting to discuss the Knight’s code of conduct because that’s what Perceval’s mother was trying to quickly teach him before he left.
In reply to Adéla Chvátalová

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Jiří Chytrý -
Perceval's aggresive behaviour is something that stood out to me as well, he is so bloodthirsty in the English version (in a lot of way he reminds me of Ramund hin Unge, the uncouth hero of a Danish folk song, who is likewise mocked for being poorly dressed, ignorant of courtly manners, and wants to fight/kill almost everyone he meets). It is very likely this serves to position Perceval as a savage (maybe even considering the Viking neighbour precedent for the savage?). The closest equivalent to this in the French original seem to me Perceval's constant blasphemies or perhaps his sexual trangressions (connotating similarly violent behaviour and some sort of animalistic thirst)
 
For further discussion, I think it is noteworthy that Perceval starts off as the crazed hunter/savage in the wilds, which was strikingly also the form Ywain's madness took.
In reply to Jiří Chytrý

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Helena Znojemská -
Both the English and the French Perceval are presented as wild and uncivilized, but while - as you note - the English version signals this through his aggression, the French does that differently. Adéla mentioned his "silly questions", which are, of course, a case in point, but beyond that, there is his self-centeredness in not listening to others - something which crops up repeatedly in his early interactions (the knights, the mother, the girl in the tent, even Arthur).
In reply to First post

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Jáchym Hájek -
The English Perceval is much more forceful, for starters, threatening to kill the knights after he's learnt what they are, while in the French version it was only before he saw them. The French version thus makes him a bit more reasonable (however, that is not too reasonable to begin with) and possibly a bit more well-meaning (although this, again, is really debatable with his later actions). The English Perceval, just as Adéla remarked, also intends to kill Arthur should he not get his way, while the French is mostly just eager and curious.
However, one of the biggest differences - and the most uncomfortable one - is when Perceval encounters the lady. In the English version she is asleep and remains asleep as he kisses her and swaps their rings. In the French version he goes full assault, forcing himself upon her and then removing her ring despite her fighting back, not giving her anything back. That was just such a terrifying scene that it really makes Perceval seem like a villain rather than a knight.
Of course, in both versions, Perceval is more of a parody of a knight - he's uneducated to the point of being so dim he cannot think for himself and only twists the lessons his mother gave him, he uses violence almost for violence's sake, or at least for his own goals, and his interpretation of chivalry is more than misguided. The French version, however, makes this misinterpretation into a much more severe parody of chivalry, as by taking only the wrong lessons from his mother's words, he, instead of helping the young lady, does everything he can to make her life miserable.
Both Percevals are very self-centred, but the French one seemed to me more insidious, ignoring his mother when she collapses and, again, committing as many transgressions as possible upon meeting the young lady.
In reply to Jáchym Hájek

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Helena Znojemská -
Yes, this is a curious modification on the part of the English narrative, isn't it? I mean the fact that it heightens Perceval's aggressive behaviour overall but tones down the transgressiveness in his encounter with the lady, and it makes him less heartless in his dealings with his mother, also because the prehistory of his growing up a wild man of the woods is told by the narrator while his mother keeps the emotional strain this put on her to herself - an aspect which Chrétien's Perceval brusquely dismisses, although he keeps invoking his mother's advice throughout his interactions with others.
In reply to First post

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Anna Pavlova -
Apart from being less aggressive, the French Perceval is more responsive to the world and appreciates the beauty around him. When he enters the forest, his heart leaps "with joy at the sweet season and the happy sound of birds singing from the trees" [85-90], and he is tremendously happy after the encounter with the knights saying to his mother they are "far more beautiful than God Himself or all his angels" [393-395]. Chrétien's Perceval mentions the words "beauty" and "beautiful" many times. In the English text, it is just mentioned that he roams around the forest killing birds for fun. On top of that, when the English Perceval meets the knights, he says he will kill them until they tell him who they are. He also gets angry at Sir Kay's reply and even wants to attack him. After the encounter, he says to his mother that he "saw three knights in green and <...> spoke to them roughly" [376]. In the English text, he is called "strong and healthy," but in Chrétien's version, you can see his admiration for nature and beauty in general. 
In the French text, Perceval's mother considers unskillfulness as his main weakness: "You'll manage badly, I know it: as poorly prepared as you are, how can you not do badly? How can one know what has never been learned?" [521-525]. However, in the English version, the first thing the mother says is that he is ill-mannered and has "little courtesy" [397].
Despite seeming less brutal in the French version, Chrétien's Perceval demonstrates savage behavior toward the girl in the tent, which is pretty strange. Maybe this could be discussed during the session - why he assaults the girl and takes the ring against her will in the French text, and why in the English text the maiden remains asleep (it would probably make more sense if it was the other way around?)
In reply to Anna Pavlova

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Helena Znojemská -
I agree with your observations on Perceval's encounter with the lady and I've brought this up in my response to Jáchym. What you mention concerning the French Perceval's responsiveness to the beauty of nature is a good point, and it makes his characterization the more puzzling. We will definitely look at this in the session.
In reply to First post

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Štěpán Rybák -
Speaking of my impressions from comparing the two starting passages, a notion that one surely cannot avoid is the extensive use of violence by Perceval in the English version. Yet, I would argue that Perceval's straightforward threats ("Then I will kill you all unless you tell me who you are, since you are not gods." - 293-296) are probably used because they ought to mirror his background. Being raised in wilderness (nearly as if being an animal), he pursues a bilateral mode of thinking - either he gets what he wants, or he attacks. On the other hand, in Chrétien's narrative Perceval again is the one who uses force unnecessarily, but he does it in order to comply with what "my mother taught me" (695). Another interesting aspect that might be indicative of the upcoming development of the story is the religious dimension of Perceval. The English hero wants to meet God because he is (presumably) fascinated by his power and might, on the contrary, the French version shows Perceval as a truly devoted and humble person. The issue of religion would be something definately worth debating in the class.
In reply to Štěpán Rybák

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Helena Znojemská -
I agree that the religious dimension is something that needs debate - we'll see how others perceive this. After all, the English Perceval is ultimately presented as the model Christian knight, fighting Saracens and dying on a crusade...
Also, I think you're right in noting that the English Perceval's upbringing is presented as barely existing - the French Perceval has had some lessons in religious basics at least, which he references when he first hears and then sees the knights, while apparently the English Perceval continues in a "natural" state until his mother mentions he should pray - a concept he finds totally novel.
In reply to First post

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Anastasiya Nováková -
I've noticed how the French version romanticises the knighthood while the English version shows that it is a dangerous title to carry.
In Chrétien's story, young Perceval had two brothers who became knights. It was their father's wish, and by some coincidence, they received that title on the same day. However, on their way home, both were killed in the battle. Their father couldn't cope with it, and died from grief. We learn this whole story from Percival's mother when she tried to persuade her son to stay home instead of pursuing a 'career' as a knight. As I perceived it, there were more descriptions of her or her husband's feelings rather than talk about the battles.
In the English version, we learn from the very beginning, as an introduction, that Percival's father was killed in the battle when his son was very little. It was mentioned that his father was a skilful and noble knight, but it didn't help him to defeat his opponent. In this version, the focus was more on the action rather than feelings.
In reply to Anastasiya Nováková

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Helena Znojemská -
I'm not quite sure "romanticizing" knighthood is what matters at this point. Yes, it's more about feelings in Chrétien, but the heart of the matter for me at least lies in Perceval's reaction to this very emotional appeal by his mother.
In reply to First post

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Veronika Šteflová -
In both of the versions Perceval is depicted as a good child, although more focus is given on how strong and healthy his body becomes in the English version. Perceval resembles someone who is growing into a powerful, firm, reliable adult, whereas the French Perceval seems more like a dreamer, he is closer to nature (his connection to nature and later interpretation of knights as God and shining angles - as a mythical entities coming from the woods - almost reminded me of Pagans.)
Speaking of the encounter with the knights, English Perceval is much more straightforward-forwards, steady in his questions, and aggressive when his answers do not get a response. He almost starts a fight with one of the knights, which suggests his yet childish naivity combined with the tendency to become aggressive once the situation gets uncomfortable for him. He turns his energy into aggression and power. French Perceval, on the other hand, is blinded by them, he adores them, calling them "more beautiful than God." He prays (as his mother told him to do), and as my colleague Adéla already stated, asks silly questions - he acts as a tabula rasa persona in the knightly setting. He is even called an innocent fool [681]! He is not only clumsy in the knightly world, he is also this way when encountering a girl - misinterpreting the ways his mother taught him, he is almost impossible to be mad at, as he did so in belief his mother taught him well, and that he understood well. Both Percevals are eager to learn how, and eventually be a good knight, both of them have a different approach to do so though. Interestingly, both of them are motivated by the mother.

As for the session, I would find it interesting to focus more on the motif of Paganism (for me, mainly prominent in the French version) - could Perceval be interpreted as influenced by some of the Pagan ideas?
In reply to Veronika Šteflová

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Helena Znojemská -
Well, I'm not so sure "tabula rasa" or "good child" for Chrétien's Perceval are entirely fitting descriptions. At points definitely yes (he's very obedient, though just how he could have so twisted his mother's injunctions concerning how to behave with girls really beats me), at others rather not (showing not the least empathy for his mother's feelings). Or perhaps that depends on how you define a good child. What I'm driving at is that social skills (meaning: the forms of polite interaction) are not the only thing he's missing. Certainly at some moments he effectively resists inscription.
In reply to First post

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Vojtěch Ripl -
I would say that my colleagues have already covered most of the pertinent points about the differences in the two Percevals so I would just like to bring up a very minor point and that is the line in the English version: "The child grew up in the forest // and knew neither good nor evil". This seemed really interesting to me and felt as a relatively good way to excuse Percevals wild behavior. As I would say this might be a clear Biblical reference, it almost seems to paint him as this pure, though slightly savage, human prior to original sin. This would mean that he is actually more spiritually good than most other characters in the story. This ignorance of good and evil seems not top pertain to the French Perceval, who clearly distinguishes between angels and devils and is much more cognizant of God. I'm not sure however, whether what happens in the rest of the English versions supports this interpretation.
In reply to Vojtěch Ripl

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Helena Znojemská -
An intriguing point, and I don't have a ready reasponse. You're right that the line is strongly resonant, but I'm not sure we can see Perceval as a kind of prelapsarian Adam - more like not fully human? We'll see what others think.
In reply to First post

Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Simona Zákutná -
Reading through my colleagues' responses, the differences I noticed have all been brought up. I would maybe like to add an interesting motif of Expectation/Reality that I noticed throughout the text. For example, in the beginning of the story, when Perceval seeks to become a knight, he expects to show up in King Arthur’s court and be immediately knighted, but it obviously takes much more than that to become a knight. Furthermore, when Perceval removes the ring from the woman at the beginning of the story, he thinks it's a regular ring, but it turns out to be a magical ring. Another example of expectation contrasting reality is Perceval's return to see his mother. He expects her to be well and at home, while in fact she has lost her mind and left to live in the forest.
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Re: week 4: Sir Perceval de Galles

by Timotej Lauko -

After comparing lines 834-1504 of Chrétien with the English poem, I have several short remarks.

 

First, while in Chrétien's version Perceval's chief motivation to fight the Red Knight seems to be the armour, the English version has him fighting to avenge the king and regain his cup, after Arthur asks for his help. This, in my view, adds more heroism to Perceval's character, even though he still has gaining knighthood on mind.

 

Speaking of avenging, adding the fact, that the Red Knight killed Perceval's father, to the English poem, adds some more depth to Perceval, as he (albeit unknowingly) fights also for his father. Both of these differences make Perceval less selfish in Chrétien.

 

It is probably worth noting that in his ignorance Perceval disrespect the dead knights body in the English poem. The fact that he returns back to him with his horse, so they can have a rematch, as he clearly enjoys fighting, is an interesting detail too.

 

While Chrétien has Percival learn from Gornemant and train, the English Percival does not seem to need that and is, I suppose, a warrior already. This only highlights his talent.

 

I would like to discuss King Arthur's meekness and passivity in the narrative.